Actually, Anne Will wants to know this evening of Saskia Esken and Norbert Walter Borjans only what everyone wants to know. It is a single question she asks the future SPD chairman in countless variations. In or out? Do you want to stay in the coalition? Or, especially cautious: "Are you negotiating with the idea or are you contenting yourself with the idea of staying in or out?"
Puppy protection does not exist for the two newcomers anyway. "What's won now," Anne wants to know by way of introduction, and it sounds like, "Was it worth it?" For the SPD, the choice of Esken and Walter Borjans means at least clarity that it is a "keep it up!" should not give.
Political scientist Ursula Münch says that "there is no gain for anyone at the moment, that was quite a tedious process", which had occupied the country for too long. She will not say much more this evening.
Christoph Schwennicke from "Cicero" immediately throws himself at the front. He sees a "further descent of the SPD" come and rejects the new leadership duo any experience. Esken, for example, has so far only been able to gain experience in the National Parents' Council of Baden-Württemberg. That was stressful, as he knew from parent evenings, but not enough: "That's why I question the suitability clearly."
Esken explains to the journalist the difference between parents' evening and Landeselternbeitrat. She has not yet learned not to run into any rhetorical blade, but studiously ignores Münch's objection: "Is that really comparable to a ruling party?"
Stoisch Esken lectures the different positions that they have to bring in their function as Vice-vice to compensate. And yes, she thinks the work is in line with that in the SPD – "also a disagreeable shop" – for "quite comparable".
Once again there is the objection that the responsibility is quite another – on the part of the political scientist, who has not yet heard that democracy is the form of rule in which power emanates from the people. And thus by the laity. Esken: "If only those take over the office, which already do 20 years, we will never change anything."
Walter Borjans is struggling with the reference to the "unconstitutional" households, which he has set as the Minister of Finance of North Rhine-Westphalia in series. In North Rhine-Westphalia, Prime Minister Armin Laschet (CDU) knows his way around and holds against it: It's all about court decisions and details, and about how bravely the defendant beats: "Official salaries," says Laschet. "Since you have decided that from A11 …" – "Nah, that's wrong."
In the meantime, Katy Kipping, who is sitting there and is quietly happy about the left-wing pressure on the Social Democrats, lets all sorts of secrets go. Briefly plucked by Anne Will, the Left Party leader immediately declares: "This GroKo has finished", it finally needs "a government project that ignites enthusiasm".
In the passionate presentation of their ideas of a socially just climate package – it is about benefits for "the caretaker in the country", not the SUV driver in the city – it is the hostess too much: "Ms. Kipping, indeed! My mission! I wrote extra everywhere: My! "
And in it is about the content lineup with the idea to stay or get out of the grand coalition. After all, Esken and Walter-Borjans are among the harshest critics of a SPD participation in the government, not under all, then under the prevailing circumstances.
Video analysis of new SPD leadership: "The grand coalition is shaking"
Esken puts it this way: "We have put content into the room, which now urgently needs to be addressed." As an example, she calls the need for refurbishment "in schools, on bridges". Everything is crumbling because of the "myth of black zero".
If the Union was not ready to talk about this issue, then "corresponding to the revision clause" would have to be renegotiated. The attack in case the situation has changed drastically. For example, in environmental protection, where "the last two summers have shown very, very impressively how the climate is changing".
NDR / Wolfgang Borrs
Anne Will in the TV studio with Saskia Esken and Norbert Walter-Borjans
Once again, we are entering into a fight with Laschet, this time with mobility concepts, fair CO2 pricing, commuter commuter rates and a coal-fired exit. There seems to be a real need for negotiation, and you do not want to play mouse at the upcoming sessions.
Nevertheless Walter-Borjans weighs several times. He sees the vote of the SPD as an expression of the will of the members not to "want to be told from above" to "who represents the party". Corresponding directives would then be decided at a congress, not by the chairmen.
Why a move away from the black zero could be useful for an industrial nation, which must invest in a social way in their infrastructural and economic future, Walter-Borjans explains then still quite plausible. Even if this zero belongs to the inalienable and thus also non-negotiable silverware of the Chancellor – and her current Finance Minister Olaf Scholz.
Which in a way would answer the only question. No, an exit for the sake of exit will probably not exist. Or, as Walter-Borjans says so charmingly: "It is not important to lead the party out of the coalition, but to lead it out of the coalition."
If need be, even out of the coalition.
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